Thursday, December 4, 2008

Extreme Spoiler Talk: The Hero in the Hold

Here is place to concentrate all the heavy spoiler talk (ie the major stuff from the sides, that most fans do NOT read) for The Hero in the Hold. Feel free to post links in the comments, but I will keep the post free of them.

The point of this post is to keep the really heavy spoilers away from those who don't want to read them, not increase the spoiler focus here. Have fun!

35 comments:

Louise said...

Well, as others have said, looks like Booth, Brennan and Cam are all dressed up, so I'm guessing it's a Jeffersonian event. Pity that we'll probably not get to see them together there ... I'm guessing they notice Booth is missing when he doesn't show up.

Not sure what else to say about this ep, other than it looks fantastic! I'm so glad they're bringing back the Gravedigger storyline, but I hope they don't give it a lame ending.

The inclusion of Teddy Parker seems to be a stroke of genius ... Booth on his own would be pretty boring, but they couldn't really have done the two people kidnapped thing again. This way we get some insights into Booth's thoughts - probably more so than ever, since he's such a private person, and really he's just talking to himself.

Milky said...

Yeah, private Parker is one INTERESTING character!
I mean... Parker, right? and the story they share...
I've always known Booth to be kind of clinically stuck on guilt... But hey... Just look at who you are!

I do hope to get to see at least a bit of the party... To see their faces when they realize Booth's not there (almost crying already).

alanna said...

One of the things that I'm really looking forward to is the reaction from Brennan when she discovers Booth is missing. We always see Booth flipping out and threatening people when Brennan is MIA, but when it is the other way around I LOVE it. (When Brennan beat the crap out of the bounty hunter in "Killer in the Concrete" I got chills...)

Louise said...

For some reason I've always felt a bit disappointed by Killer in the Concrete - there just didn't seem to be the same sense of urgency or panic as when Brennan's in trouble. Like when Brennan just casually mentions to her dad, "Booth is missing", or at the end, when it's just like, "oh, you're ok then - let's go to the diner".

I haven't seen it in awhile, so maybe I'm not giving it the credit it deserves, but I just felt like Brennan was more concerned about her relationship with her father than Booth's safety. That's part of the reason I'm so excited about this ep (especially since we were cheated from seeing Brennan's reaction to Booth's 'death').

The scene where she shouts at Hodgins looks promising - lots of potential passion there (hope she pushes him off a barstool!)

Wendy said...

I have to defend KitC! It's by far one of my favorite episodes, precisely because I *do* see a lot of emotion from Brennan, in the way she shows it at least. She will never be the type to run around like an Angela, or even like Booth. The fact that she allowed herself to use her Father is a testament to how much it affected her. At that point - she wanted nothing to do with him, but help put him away. And the moment she punches the bounty hunter - that's some passion! :) I think the dinner scene isn't a lot different from the church scene in Aliens - at least on the level of tension and interaction, and I find it very endearing. They are singing some very interesting lyrics to each other...

Louise said...

Well, like I say, I haven't seen it in ages, and I think it was before I became a big fan ... I'm sure if I watched it again now I'd like it a lot more.

Mom2ABnTB said...

I'm so excited to read all this. I can't wait. When will this one air? Is it the first one after the hiatus? I haven't been keeping up, sorry lol.
:D

cordy said...

I agree with Wendy, Killer in Concrete showed so much Brennan-passion, I totally love it. And I hope we get to see that in Hero, or even more of this, because they are so much closer now.
From what the sides look like it promises to be a really heavy dark-booth epi. Can't wait to see that.

Milky said...

Well, Mom2AB, I do hope it WON'T be the 1st one to air. Fire in the Ice should be the first to air, in my opinion, because there's where Perotta's introduction ocurrs!

Louise said...

I agree with Milky ... FitI, DTitP and HitH are the three eps I've been most excited about for ages now, so I'd rather they just showed them in order. I guess having HitH second would be ok, but not showing FitI first would just be stupid.

cordy said...

I concur, vehemently ;)
Please no more wrong order mess-up

Anonymous said...

I'm almost certain that the running order will be DTitP then FitI and HitH. Looking forward to them all!! There is going to be a lot of passion!!

Feeling_Puckish said...

What I really want to see here beyond the "Parker" backstory and Brennan's reaction is some sort of admission from Booth about his "faith" and "feelings" in Brennan.

I love Killer in the Concrete because I do think Brennan shows her desperation and devotion towards Booth. I was more disappointed in Booth's reactions in Aliens in the Spaceship--yes, he was concerned but he was not broken up. He was angry. It just felt a little flat to me. Also, I couldn't believe that he had a whole episode with a therapist in Girl in the Gator without talking about his partner beyond saying that she needed him. I need to see Booth let something loose--if he can't do this in his delusion then we are all in trouble. You know, I just thought of something while typing--this is a fantasy episode of sorts isn't it? hmmmmmm

Anonymous said...

Sorry,I totally disagree with your assessment. Booth was in a relationship with Cam at that point. Bear that in mind.AND did you not see him threaten to kill Vega if Brennan died.Did you not see how frantic he was to find her.Did you not see him running down that hill?Dug through the gravel with his bear hands. AND he did talk to Wyatt about Brennan,just off screen,he told her he did.AND did you not see how worried he was for her in Two Bodies and The Cell.You should rewatch those epi,before Booth bashing.

Anonymous said...

This is not the Fantasy epi, it isn't even filmed yet, will be shown at the end of the season. The Teddy Parker scenes with Booth are going to be the best. Booth does have other people in his life. His life doesn't revolve around Brennan. He loves Parker more than anything in this world. Of course he is going to be thinking about him when he thinks that he might die and his ex Rebecca who he shares a bond with and still loves. And we don't have the entire script.

So the Digger must of drugged Booth right?

Anonymous said...

Booth's therapy with Gordon Wyatt, the sessions were about him and how he dealt with killing Epps, did he let go of Epps hand on purpose or did he try to save him but couldn't, the guilt of the numerous people he has killed, breaking up with Cam, how he dealt with stress as an FBI Agent by wearing his socks and ties. Not everything is about Brennan. Yes he did talk to Gordon about Brennan, remember when Booth told her, she wanted to know and he said that was between Gordon and him.

Feeling_Puckish said...

Sorry Anon--I didn't mean to bash Booth. He is just holding back way too much which is understandable but like all of the 'shippers out there, I want more. Let's be honest, in the Aliens episode, he did nothing to help solve the case besides push people around like he would do for any victim. He was sitting in his office waiting. To me, he established nothing more than their partnership bond--Brennan will hug him at the end of HitH and I can't believe that he didn't hug her in Aliens. I will give you the "running down the hill and digging" though--absolutely one of my favorite scenes in the entire series--so hot!! I think he would do that to save anyone--he is a true hero after all.

I love Booth and I give him a lot of credit but take another look at the episode. I have no problem with Two Bodies in the Lab or The Man in the Morgue--the writers were still headed in the right direction at that point.

Of course, this is all strictly my opinion . . . and I am really glad to have a place to discuss it. I hope that is ok--I don't want to upset anyone.

Wendy said...

As long as everyone is respectful, as you have been, you are free (and very welcome) to discuss all view points! :)

Anonymous said...

Booth isn't a scienctist,he couldn't do anymore than he than he already did.He talked to everyone he could,and reached a deadend. As he said it took everyone to find B & H, not just one person, them all. That was the point of the epi. And you are talking about epi 11 in S2. B&B were not as close as they are in S4, can't even compare it. David did want their characters to hug but It was Hart that said no, it was a Hodgela moment. FYI Brennan didn't hug Booth when she found him beaten & tortured in Concrete.

Anonymous said...

Sorry I meant episode 9 not 11 in S2. I have watched this epi several times, it is a favorite, just can't see your view of Booth at all in this epi. Sorry. Again it is worth remembering that we can't really compare the emotional attachment between Booth and Brennan in an early season 2 epi and a mid season 4 epi, that is kinda unfair. Jmo

Louise said...

I kind of agree with both points ... yes, Booth's reactions in that ep were more like a worried partner than a distraught man in love, but I definitely saw a lot of emotion from his side. I loved the way he just kept fighting and wouldn't give up - the way he beat up that guy for even mentioning the possibility that Brennan might die, how he was the only one that wouldn't give up when the clock struck zero, the way he dug on his hands and knees to get them out. Booth's not a quitter, and there was no way he was going to stop until he found them. How he would have reacted if they hadn't made it might have been another story.

But I do think that Aliens was a key turning point for both of them to realise that they had formed a very strong relationship ... but they still saw it as a friendship. I agree that it would be interesting to see the difference now though, when they're so much further along in their relationship.

Anonymous said...

Good point Louise! Booth and Brennan had a good friendship in Aliens, a strong partnership. Nothing more. Booth had just sorted out where Rebecca and he stood. And he had reconnected with Cam, who he did care about. We learnt from Con Man what a deep and caring friendship Booth and Cam have. So I didn't expect him to act like a distraught lover cause he wasn't. And again in The Killer In The Concrete, it was about Brennan finding her close and dear partner, she didn't hug him when she found him either.

Bumble said...

I completely agree too! I also think aswell that in Hero Brennan knows and understands the the danger that Booth is in thus making her distraught and more emotional! I can't wait 4 this epi been looking forward to it since S3 cuz i think thats when the Gravedigger was suppose to emerge again however i think its all worked out for the best this way. Booth and Brennan are so much closer now. Their relationship has defo standed the test of time!

Milky said...

I just remembered--

I read somewhere a little discussion about how Booth says to Parker he loves Rebecca.
I remember that when I read that, I thought he meant it as in caring a lot about her, specially considering she's the mother of his child. As in they shared a strong connection, and important past.

But I've read some people quite distraught by it...

heirofloki said...

Milky, you're right. He says something like: I love her. I just don't like her anymore. And then I think there's a comment about how *she* didn't love him. Which, OUCH, much?

I don't know. Personally, I don't see what's there to be worried about. I think people saw the love bit and went into a frenzy. It's the nature of fandom, I'm afraid. =P

heirofloki said...

Because I'm anal -and quite gifted at procrastinating when it comes to schoolwork- I went looking for the sides and the convo:

BIG SPOILER FOLLOWS:

Parker: What about his (BabyParker's) mother?
Booth: She likes me too. But she never loved me.
P: You loved her though?
B: Yeah, I loved her. I Still do. I just don't like her much.

So there it is. Sad's all I can say. But very real.

*sigh* I really need to get my homework done.

Shep said...

Well you can love someone but not be in love with them, so maybe that's what he means. I agree with Milky - he still loves and cares about her in that friendly kind of way and has a connection because she's Parker's mother.

cordy said...

Yeah I get that, love sombody without being in love with them. What I don't get is "I just don't like her much"

Louise said...

I liked that part of the sides ... it's very sad and bittersweet. The 'love' comment makes perfect sense to me, but I was also a bit confused about the 'I just don't like her much' comment. It kind of makes sense when I think of the season 1 Rebecca, who wouldn't let him spend time with his son, but then in The Truth in The Lye they seemed to get on well. Mind you, in Santa in the Slush, she was still taking Parker away for Christmas. I think that's probably the main source of his 'dislike' ... that she's starting a new family with 'Captain Fantastic', and wont let him see Parker as much as he'd like.

I like that his character can still surprise us like that though ... just shows that we don't really 'know' Booth.

cordy said...

Probably you're right Louise. And thanks for your POV, now it makes a little more sense to me. So let's see how this will play out in the epi. Maybe DB can get this side of Booth across to us more clearly.

heirofloki said...

Heeh. The Love but don't like comment actually makes perfect sense to me. But then, I've been there. Let's see. It's like....

Having deep affection for someone you can't stand because their behaviour affects you in various, destructive or just painful ways. It can be a partner, a friend, a lover or a family member. You love them, want the best for them, but know that the things they do (and the things they do to you) usually 'cause you pain...I don't know. It's a strange dichotomy to explain. I will say though, Booth's statement didn't really surprise me. He's always made clear he holds a deep affection for Rebecca, but her reluctance to give him full access to his son, her funky boyfriends (from S2), her temper (referenced multiple times) and the fact that she still gives him a hard time about his interaction with Parker (see Bone in the Nest), would definitely make her a source of pain. Hence, love but not Like.

Eh. It all made sense in my head. lol

Louise said...

I definitely understand the 'love but not like' scenario, I just never really thought of it applying to Booth and Rebecca. Now I've thought about it though, it does make sense.

I feel he's sold himself short though ... I think Rebecca does care about him, just not in the way he wanted. And I guess not enough, or she'd be more understanding where Parker was concerned.

Feeling_Puckish said...

There are a lot of good comments here on friendship, partnership, and love.

friendship and partnership: I can see the points that are being made about the B&B relationship from one gravedigger epi to the other. Going back to season 2, I guess that coming off the Girl with a Curl and the Woman in the Sand episodes, I saw a lot of progress and a shifting in Booth's feelings toward Brennan. I mean he chose to stay with her instead of going with Cam at the end of GwaC (such a GREAT scene!!) and then he insisted she stay in Vegas with him in WitS. I keep going back to the moment when he shut the laptop on Cam and "chose" Brennan--at least that is what it felt like to me. After the Roxie moments, it is hard to believe that his feelings did not move beyond friendship and partnership--so I was expecting a little something more at the end of Aliens.

Love: I can totally understand the love/like comments toward Rebecca and I am looking forward to this part of the epi. I think Booth needs to face his demons, but I also think that his feelings for Brennan is one of those demons that he needs to face. DB has really pumped up the acting volume lately. This should be an excellent episode for him and I can't wait!!

Anonymous said...

David's acting is always top notch. The man hasn't had a decent Booth centred episode since The Solider On The Grave in season 1 to sink his teeth into. Hart really hasn't paid enough service to his character, with an over focus on Brennan's past. It has been unbalanced, imo. That is why there has been such a buzz about the Booth centred episodes in S4. Booth is this engima, this puzzle, that is just begging to get figured out. I for one am uber excited to get to know about our dashing leading man! :)

Anonymous said...

Excellent insightful posts Louise and Heirofloki! I wish that Rebecca was still on the show, just a random episode here and there. She is such a big part of Booth's life, a part of who he is today. That two episodes in S2 is really not good enough. I also remember in the Fallout Shelter,Booth had to plead with Rebecca to have Sid bring Parker to him, he said that she didn't even have to see him and 'don't make me beg' line. Their relationship seems to be fragile but bonded for the shared love of their son

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